Image

2 antenna one hot one not setup on s10

This section is about Keydown Competition rigs or high performance competition base setups. If you have questions or information on how to maximize a competition setup, this is the place !

Moderator: JR Moderator

User avatar
the_junkie
Donor
Donor
Posts: 729
Joined: Wednesday, 17 September 2008, 19:23 PM
Radio: uniden pc68
Location: Illinois
Contact:

2 antenna one hot one not setup on s10

Post by the_junkie » Monday, 24 November 2008, 23:38 PM

ok guys, i'm helpin run the keydown, and dangit if i ain't gonna key haha

I'm gonna run one antenna, but want to be able to run 2 in case i get into it...

I have a 1996 s-10 that will my my ride. I know that in order to do well, i'm gonna need an edge over the burbans.

So, i want to set up a reflector for a one hot one not style configuration. I have talekd to a couple people, and I have heard differing opinions. If i put my topper back on, can I run a reflector with no groundplane, as it is just reflecting the signal? or should i somehow attach a thin sheet of metal to the topper to get a groundplane? I would rather use the topper, but my other option would be a 1/2 wave reflector coming off the back bumper. I will be running either a fighting stick or a mm6 as the hot antenna. I would like to know, so I know what i need to be saving for next. I am buildin it up a little at a time, to make things work better.

Any input is greatly appreciated!

870 on the key got down and goooonnneee
MOBILE:

1996 S-10 Pickup Truck
Aluminum Topper
200amp Leece-Neville
2 55-r4s
Cobra 29
1 pill Bull-It and 2 pill Bull-It
1x4 X-Force
5 Fighting Sticks
3 group 31 Batteries
PalStar PM2000am
All this = RELAY RELAY RELAY RELAY
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;




User avatar
stagecoach
Donor
Donor
Posts: 297
Joined: Tuesday, 22 January 2008, 21:59 PM
Location: FLORIDA
Contact:

Post by stagecoach » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 2:03 AM

hello junkie here is a sure thing this is the proper way have fun ........with the topper on ............u can use a thin plate r chicken wire i have installed both with real good results ......install this inside the topper u will need some small c=clamps to anchor the wire r u can use sheet metal screws u will need a strip of metal to attch the the ground to the bed of the truck all the way along the DaveMade at the top of the bed o k u still with me u can use alum.for this as well your metal strips the idea is to make a ground plane so attachment is very important make sure you use a backing plate under your mount and be sure to attach the plate to your wire r your plate which ever u use if useing wire take care to form a nice fit if plate is used secure it real good to the top of the topper ok next the strips i spoke of i take those strip and put them under the DaveMade of the bed and use the c-clamps r screws to secure the wire to the bed note if you use the plate you will need some sort of ground strap material to secure to the bed to give the ground plane it's ground no further than 18 inches apart along both sides and the front once all is installed to tune your ant 1st take the back mount and make a small jumper from the hot of the mount directly to ground i recommend rg 213 r better o k u should be ready to tune up your ants with no ant on the truck take the ant u are going to use as aback door and put in the hot mount and tune it for swr .....once this is done move it to the back mount and put the hot on and tune it for swr ...........you will need a field strength meter next if you have followed instructions well you will have fairly nice front to back ratio establish swr will r should be between 1.0 and 1.3 keep it under 1.5 and u can do extra tuning to perfect the system pay attn to swr and gain out the front and what u have coming out the back depending on which material u use this install can be done in 2 hrs r less counting tuning of ant good luck ................I"M STAGECOACH and i approve this message do it right the 1st time and have fun while your doing it ...........COACH...........note if the topper is metal then the wire nor the plate is needed just use a back plate on the mount for stability if using chicken wire then line all of the topper all the way to the top of the bed if using plate the follow instructions above at 18 in spreads on the ground straps at least 3/4 inch ground straps you will like this system very much ..........................stagecoach...........A REAL GROUNDSHAKER .........................

User avatar
stagecoach
Donor
Donor
Posts: 297
Joined: Tuesday, 22 January 2008, 21:59 PM
Location: FLORIDA
Contact:

Post by stagecoach » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 2:12 AM

hey junkie i forgot one other thing .............lol the spread between the two ant is 86 inches center to center and that back door junper 6 inches r shorter hook the center only one end to the hot of the mount and the other end to one the bolts coming into the backing plate this must be grounded real good just as instructed the sheilded ground is not used in the jumper center to center = center of one ant to center of the other ant ...................................................coach

User avatar
the_junkie
Donor
Donor
Posts: 729
Joined: Wednesday, 17 September 2008, 19:23 PM
Radio: uniden pc68
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Post by the_junkie » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 8:26 AM

stagecoach wrote:hey junkie i forgot one other thing .............lol the spread between the two ant is 86 inches center to center and that back door junper 6 inches r shorter hook the center only one end to the hot of the mount and the other end to one the bolts coming into the backing plate this must be grounded real good just as instructed the sheilded ground is not used in the jumper center to center = center of one ant to center of the other ant ...................................................coach
Thanks. Sounds like it just might work;) Now all i gotta do is get the stuff to do it. Will I have an effective groundplane still if i cover the metal/wire for looks? like seam the edges together or something?
MOBILE:

1996 S-10 Pickup Truck
Aluminum Topper
200amp Leece-Neville
2 55-r4s
Cobra 29
1 pill Bull-It and 2 pill Bull-It
1x4 X-Force
5 Fighting Sticks
3 group 31 Batteries
PalStar PM2000am
All this = RELAY RELAY RELAY RELAY
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



User avatar
ringer
Skipshooter
Skipshooter
Posts: 348
Joined: Sunday, 06 January 2008, 0:11 AM

Post by ringer » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 8:52 AM

I thought that we're only allowed to use one antenna?


User avatar
the_junkie
Donor
Donor
Posts: 729
Joined: Wednesday, 17 September 2008, 19:23 PM
Radio: uniden pc68
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Post by the_junkie » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 9:05 AM

ringer wrote:I thought that we're only allowed to use one antenna?
correct, in the classes...but i wanna have this setup for if i grudge, or for other keydowns...

Ours ain't the only one i'll be at ever, so i figure i'll plan now
MOBILE:

1996 S-10 Pickup Truck
Aluminum Topper
200amp Leece-Neville
2 55-r4s
Cobra 29
1 pill Bull-It and 2 pill Bull-It
1x4 X-Force
5 Fighting Sticks
3 group 31 Batteries
PalStar PM2000am
All this = RELAY RELAY RELAY RELAY
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



User avatar
SwampHog
Wordwide & Qualified
Wordwide & Qualified
Posts: 1717
Joined: Wednesday, 17 October 2007, 15:42 PM

Post by SwampHog » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 9:13 AM

the_junkie wrote:
ringer wrote:I thought that we're only allowed to use one antenna?
correct, in the classes...but i wanna have this setup for if i grudge, or for other keydowns...

Ours ain't the only one i'll be at ever, so i figure i'll plan now
add me and mojo to that list of grudge matches :lol:

User avatar
drdx
Donor
Donor
Posts: 5966
Joined: Wednesday, 25 April 2007, 11:32 AM

Post by drdx » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 9:14 AM

Interesting, I guess the 6 inch jumper is what you are describing as the extra 5% or so length needed to make the rear element a reflector. I like that, easy to fab and probably works fine. The 86 inches is is interesting as well, as there are many philosophies that have math that varies that from .1 to .15 wavelength. That 86 is in the .2 range and possibly seen as the best length vs. element illumination, as the gain of a beam is primarily a function of the boom length, or array length in this case.

That chicken wire and such sounds like a lot of work. Since this setup is just sitting still, why not just fashion a put together reflector, that is about 5% longer than a half wave, removing the need to worry about fabbing a groundplane. That's what a real beam uses and it is better tuned as being a reflector than something you're cooking up that is a little longer than a quarter wave and praying that your chicken wire is doing its job. This element is not connected to the vehicle in any way and the fiberglass topper will help it work better pattern wise than a metal roof would.

If you really wanted to get ambitous, make that rear reflector and then make a mag mounted director to sit on the hood. This, too is not connected electrically to the car and is about 5% shorter than a half wave. This will make a 3 element beam and grab another theoretical 3db (double the power of the 2 element) with much improved front to back ratio. From end to end, this array would optimally be in the 8 ft. range to work best. The way I see it, if you're toting aluminum and assembling, you might as well go all the way :wink: >

-drdx
Yes it's me, Dollar-98, drdx, the original all *Censored*, shot cawla on workin this no-fade technology.

-drdx



User avatar
drdx
Donor
Donor
Posts: 5966
Joined: Wednesday, 25 April 2007, 11:32 AM

Post by drdx » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 9:21 AM

One more thing, on that added jumper that is no more than 6 inches, it can be longer, and if so it will make the beam directional further down the frequency range, but at the expense of gain at the desired frequency. The closer it is to being in that magical 5% or so longer than a half wave the better the gain, at the expense of a little bandwidth, no big deal. The 6 inches is about 5% after the velocity factor is figured in, as it is coax, than a quarter wave and the ground takes place of the other half, if you go that route. -drdx
Yes it's me, Dollar-98, drdx, the original all *Censored*, shot cawla on workin this no-fade technology.

-drdx



User avatar
lonesome 500
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1792
Joined: Friday, 08 June 2007, 14:40 PM

Post by lonesome 500 » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 9:39 AM

long as your elements are in line...height and spacing....

you can mount the reflector on the bumper....with a riser from a drop hitch or thread the end and mount where hitch ball goes
<center>
<a><img></a>
</center>



User avatar
lonesome 500
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1792
Joined: Friday, 08 June 2007, 14:40 PM

Post by lonesome 500 » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 9:48 AM

look through these.......

http://www.angelfire.com/pa5/keydown/
<center>
<a><img></a>
</center>



User avatar
drdx
Donor
Donor
Posts: 5966
Joined: Wednesday, 25 April 2007, 11:32 AM

Post by drdx » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 9:54 AM

You know, I"ve seen a lot of keydown rig pics and I see that some guys do a 2 hot plus directors, or even a single hot plus directors. Usually when designing a beam, you never go with more than one director unless you have a reflector. I know a lot of deception goes into these setups to throw off the competition. I'm guessing that some of these apparent "2 hot" setups with the 2 pucks are actually single hot and the rear is the reflector with the loading hidden under the mount.

-drdx
Yes it's me, Dollar-98, drdx, the original all *Censored*, shot cawla on workin this no-fade technology.

-drdx



User avatar
stagecoach
Donor
Donor
Posts: 297
Joined: Tuesday, 22 January 2008, 21:59 PM
Location: FLORIDA
Contact:

Post by stagecoach » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 21:12 PM

just install as directed it's been tried and will work best note the small jumper is not for tuning is what connects reflector to ground also all should be inside the topper if installed well no need for the seams u spoke of as for the bumper install will not compare to the install i gave you good luck and if you find your self keying against the other suggestions you will know which is better .........lmao...........have fun .......coach

User avatar
stagecoach
Donor
Donor
Posts: 297
Joined: Tuesday, 22 January 2008, 21:59 PM
Location: FLORIDA
Contact:

Post by stagecoach » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 22:00 PM

one other thing to keep in to consideration junkie i do these installs i run in comp. and run to the front on a regular basis .....notice i gave you all you needed with proper measurements and a way of tuning .......not a site or talk of pics or something they think may work or their understanding of what they think they see .....lol...... when putting multiples ant on mobiles some rules do not apply like assuming that the reflector does not connect to the truck it does a lot of fellas would like for you to think they have it figured out...... but easy to see they don't ......as for your comments fellas i welcome them but ,do not try to correct what is obvious you do not understand and if you think you do then take it to the line with junkie if he will follow my suggestions then it will be easy to see..... the proof will be in the pudding ......lol junkie and all who reads this post check my old post and it will be clear what i am speaking of .......lol.....drdx you are a smart man and will try things and figure it out but to be honest you do not understand what i was suggesting to junkie so i would appreciate you checking out what i suggested b 4 you recommend a correction ....................coach

User avatar
the_junkie
Donor
Donor
Posts: 729
Joined: Wednesday, 17 September 2008, 19:23 PM
Radio: uniden pc68
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Post by the_junkie » Tuesday, 25 November 2008, 23:11 PM

thanks for the input guys.

I will let ya'll know how she performs...
MOBILE:

1996 S-10 Pickup Truck
Aluminum Topper
200amp Leece-Neville
2 55-r4s
Cobra 29
1 pill Bull-It and 2 pill Bull-It
1x4 X-Force
5 Fighting Sticks
3 group 31 Batteries
PalStar PM2000am
All this = RELAY RELAY RELAY RELAY
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



User avatar
Doughboy
Duckplucker
Duckplucker
Posts: 194
Joined: Thursday, 16 August 2007, 12:43 PM
Radio: General Lee
Name: Doughboy
Location: South Carolina

Post by Doughboy » Wednesday, 26 November 2008, 7:02 AM

Junkie


I am running two hot antennas as a everyday and all day deal, it works real good too, on a 97 S10. You get some info from goggling 55 antenna magic it has every thing you will need.

I got my info from jessejamesdallas. But 55 antenna magic was basically the same info. Have fun and maybe we can keydown our mobiles one day who knows.
Doughboy "2718 Mobile in the Karolina's"
"Touch My Tummy & you Die"
We Monitor Channels 6 11 21 26
Mobile: General Lee with My Gangsta Stick & 55 Antenna & 2 Watt
Base: Galaxy 44v & Connex HPZX w/ Maco KW w/ Antron 99
& 3 Element Homemade V Series Beam


Image



User avatar
drdx
Donor
Donor
Posts: 5966
Joined: Wednesday, 25 April 2007, 11:32 AM

Post by drdx » Wednesday, 26 November 2008, 8:01 AM

I'm sure that chicken wire deal works, but the jumper, and specifically the "no longer than 6 inch" part gives it away that it is part of the reflector tuning, as that is what gives it directivity. Fortunately, even with non theory based math applied, the yagi-uda design is forgiving enough to work on very loose paramaters. The real way to tune that chicken wire deal would be with an analyzer to capture the reflector resonant frequency to make sure your frequency window is not too wide and you're losing a little front to back, as coaxes, setup, etc. vary. Any yes, theory always applies. I'm glad to happily agree to disagree on that as many on here obviously disagree with opening an antenna book and believing it. Have a good Thanksgiving. -drdx
Yes it's me, Dollar-98, drdx, the original all *Censored*, shot cawla on workin this no-fade technology.

-drdx



User avatar
lonesome 500
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1792
Joined: Friday, 08 June 2007, 14:40 PM

Post by lonesome 500 » Wednesday, 26 November 2008, 10:57 AM

drdx wrote:You know, I"ve seen a lot of keydown rig pics and I see that some guys do a 2 hot plus directors, or even a single hot plus directors. Usually when designing a beam, you never go with more than one director unless you have a reflector. I know a lot of deception goes into these setups to throw off the competition. I'm guessing that some of these apparent "2 hot" setups with the 2 pucks are actually single hot and the rear is the reflector with the loading hidden under the mount.

-drdx
alot of these are used in 2 manners......when at a shootout...the front puck is disconnected interally and used as a director in the "yagi type" setup....with the rear being a reflector with some using a doorknob cap.....and the multi fronts being direct...

then when sticks removed......front puck rewired usually endfire for dual ''semi directional'' when driving.

i have seen 2 hots on a stick setup ....takes alot of tweaking on the line

i've looked into deaign of a stick setup......with the diameter of the shaft of a pred 10k or bigger...added gain
<center>
<a><img></a>
</center>



User avatar
lonesome 500
Donor
Donor
Posts: 1792
Joined: Friday, 08 June 2007, 14:40 PM

Post by lonesome 500 » Wednesday, 26 November 2008, 12:33 PM

oh.....btw junkie.....you might check out this one too

http://www.skater229.com/index.html
<center>
<a><img></a>
</center>




Post Reply Previous topicNext topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests