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ww228Kidd

This section is about Keydown Competition rigs or high performance competition base setups. If you have questions or information on how to maximize a competition setup, this is the place !

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Post by PRO151 » Friday, 23 November 2007, 20:32 PM

Alright son, Fill er up! :lol:
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Post by Handy_man » Friday, 23 November 2007, 20:36 PM

OK iam confused is this the thread (where my dad can beat up you dad)
LOL

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Post by PRO151 » Friday, 23 November 2007, 21:00 PM

Splain it to him Kidd.
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Post by Slim Jim » Friday, 23 November 2007, 21:40 PM

? :?

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Post by ww228kidd » Friday, 23 November 2007, 22:44 PM

this is so cool....i would have thought that they would have took a vote for a month or so....great!!!!
now use guys have a swap idea and spill the beans place....thanks cbradiotalk.com guys...this is were i will stay....i will not comment on nothing but what is on here....Competition Rigs!!! Thanks!!!


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Post by ww228kidd » Friday, 23 November 2007, 23:28 PM

Its so late, well early. I guess crazytrucker will not be in here tonight. LOL..(yelling)...hey crazytrucker!!! where are you man!!!!... come on man, come join the comp guys...(winking)...i still wanna send you a xmas present.....lol




PS: Crazytrucker is gonna think i am retarded..lol I wouldn't pick on him if i didn't like him.

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Post by J-570 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 4:38 AM

What happened to my post.... it was the second post in this thread... :roll:

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Post by linx » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 5:55 AM

Awsome. I look forward to this section.
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Post by Phaze91460 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 6:40 AM

How bout you guys start with a few pix of comp rigs and describe what was done to build them and why.
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Post by 209 first class » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 6:57 AM

i missed the splaination. ill gather this is the competition rig thread? whats the tallest antenna allowed on a mobile rig ? 209
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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:00 AM

less than 18feet....unless you are in a sky class...you can run whatever i the sky class...

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Post by Punkin Head » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:11 AM

ww228kid, just an idea can you post a thread like "Competition Mobile 101" and give the basic's of whats needed to start the mobile off. like testing equipment needed, how to hook it up properly, how many batteries, size alternator and how many? Just a thought. I personally dont have a clue and would gain knowledge from a post like this.

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Post by linx » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:19 AM

My predator is hitting bridges if I drive slow. Is that bad? I think they're 18 ft. If I drive fast, I'm gtg.

If anyone can give pointers, its definatly ww228kid. He's got me talked into this 18v thing I'm gonna do this next week, lol.
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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:21 AM

Punkin Head wrote:ww228kid, just an idea can you post a thread like "Competition Mobile 101" and give the basic's of whats needed to start the mobile off. like testing equipment needed, how to hook it up properly, how many batteries, size alternator and how many? Just a thought. I personally dont have a clue and would gain knowledge from a post like this.

73's bud
i would have to do that type of thing tonight...kinda busy right now for all that typing and stuff....
plus dont take this area to only be about me only, there are lot of comp guys in here that can help out
i will see what i can do

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Post by Punkin Head » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:23 AM

ww228kidd wrote:
Punkin Head wrote:ww228kid, just an idea can you post a thread like "Competition Mobile 101" and give the basic's of whats needed to start the mobile off. like testing equipment needed, how to hook it up properly, how many batteries, size alternator and how many? Just a thought. I personally dont have a clue and would gain knowledge from a post like this.

73's bud
i would have to do that type of thing tonight...kinda busy right now for all that typing and stuff....
plus dont take this area to only be about me only, there are lot of comp guys in here that can help out
i will see what i can do
I know, any of the comp guys that can put together that type of post would be very helpful.
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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:26 AM

linx wrote:My predator is hitting bridges if I drive slow. Is that bad? I think they're 18 ft. If I drive fast, I'm gtg.

If anyone can give pointers, its definatly ww228kid. He's got me talked into this 18v thing I'm gonna do this next week, lol.
the antenna itself is not 18feet long...you have your truck so high and the antenna is highter....the 10k is a 1/4 wave antenna...18feet antenna will put you in the 1/2 wave area

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Post by linx » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:33 AM

it was a joke..i got what they meant, lol.
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Post by Crusher » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 7:33 AM

Not Comp, but go find a BIG hill and dominate DX and squash all the ducks. LOL

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Post by PRO151 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 18:28 PM

W288Kidd is the one that requested this section. I think it only fair that he should be the first one to try to explain it to all of us lesser educated folk. I know that I did not have a clue to what a "Keydown" was and had to look it up.

C'mon Kidd, you started it, give us the lowdown! :D
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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 19:56 PM

well, there is so many things to know and to do...just ask for help on what you need and guys can reply...and remember, the guys will never tell you everything...what you need to know? you must have a starting point...what do you have now, and what is your next goal?
wish i had took a few pics of some of the rigs we have set up, we get so busy that we don't even think about it, and plus guys don't want pics of there setup being exposed...i can only try to help with the situation that you having...or....well, i was gonna say something, but i don't know if i am allowed...i am not a sponsor...

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Post by Crusher » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:32 PM

Tell em 228, put a great big hammer and as you say run what ya got and run it to the max. Just make sure you got the reflect down, cause that box ain't gonna last long if it's seeing reflected power especially if you overvolting and overdriving that box. LOL. if you shootin out, you better have a 2 element antenna setup. 5 element would be better. Your best bet for a shoot out, go to a few get the feel of the break see how things are handle and get an idea of the competition. Then see if you want to spend all that time and money to be able to compete and have a chance. those boys use a 5 pill as a driver for an 8 pill in a shootout. i have seen 8 pills DK between 2500 and 3500 watts. If your system ain't straight you WILL blow. You figure $25 a pop per pill, multiply that by 8 or 16 or whatever, it will get expensive. Those guys that run 10-50KW may only have 10-50 watts reflected. SWR wise that is something like a 1.02 or something like that, I ain't got the bird graph chart in front of me. You cannot spare the voltage system either. you cannot afford to lose even 1/2Volt when keying. Cause the guy next to you that you are shooting against ain't gonna have that problem. You wanna play, you gotta pay. Not trying to scare anyone, but just giving you a very basic idea of what has to be done. Oh and don't use a Export radio, get a nice 25 or 29 something along those lines. When you go to a shootout, see what radios they running. generally it ain't no export radio.

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Post by BigBlue 442 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:40 PM

yeah they run 25 and 29 cause they are a dime a dozen and easy to tune and replace. And the money is in the betting not the winners purse. I wonder if anyone has every taken a dive seeing how regulated the key downs are *cough* cough*. Just teasing so don't be mad. I would love to know what goes into one of these setups even if it is what was run last year. I know the guys have a lid on whats coming for this year.



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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:48 PM

well, this is how we do it...we don't just go buy everything at one time...can't afford it...you hunt ebay for alternators, go to rat shack for parts to build regulators...find some guys that swap some things you need for what they need, build as much as you can yourself, buy batteries at bulk, make your antennas, run you coax, run your wires, basically do all the install yourself, we check antennas with a hand held MFJ 259 meter, it shows SWRs and omhs...so not guessing or keying checking SWRs....the main thing is the SWRs going back into the driver..if you travel around from break to break and pick up things here and there from the guys, and hunt for deals...you can make it happen...they are not built overnight...we use a connex 3300 hp in our mobiles... because the connex is a darn good radio with alot of audio and does about 3 watts more on a bird if you can play with it...its all in what you like and stick with...find things cheap and make them work...its just like any other hobby, put back a dollar here and there for your next piece...

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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:53 PM

just like guys with them nice bass boats, race cars, hunting trucks with lift kits, harleys, 4 wheelers, guns, hoes..lol, it all takes money...but it is how we have have fun and past time, and the friends you meet on the way...

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Post by J-570 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:54 PM

Hey Kidd, do you guys switch the receive on that 3300 since it doesn't have an ACG circuit?

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Post by BigBlue 442 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:55 PM

ww228kidd wrote:well, this is how we do it...we don't just go buy everything at one time...can't afford it...you hunt ebay for alternators, go to rat shack for parts to build regulators...find some guys that swap some things you need for what they need, build as much as you can yourself, buy batteries at bulk, make your antennas, run you coax, run your wires, basically do all the install yourself, we check antennas with a hand held MFJ 259 meter, it shows SWRs and omhs...so not guessing or keying checking SWRs....the main thing is the SWRs going back into the driver..if you travel around from break to break and pick up things here and there from the guys, and hunt for deals...you can make it happen...they are not built overnight...we use a connex 3300 hp in our mobiles... because the connex is a darn good radio with alot of audio and does about 3 watts more on a bird if you can play with it...its all in what you like and stick with...find things cheap and make them work...its just like any other hobby, put back a dollar here and there for your next piece...
And all this time I thought I could just buy it all at one time and put it together on a Saturday while I had a few beers. Your not making this easy I think you holding back..... What would you say total cost on a true comp rig would be? I am serious about the question. Ball park would be fine minus the vehicle cost. Say a 25k or better rig.



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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:59 PM

nope....set the high and low

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Post by J-570 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 20:59 PM

Depends on the class of the vehicle... in the sky's the limit class..... I'd say they have an easy 50-60k invested....

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Post by J-570 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:01 PM

ww228kidd wrote:nope....set the high and low
Hmmm.... I'm missing something here.....

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Post by BigBlue 442 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:11 PM

WOW for 50k to 60k I can buy a nice Italian sports car and drive off with their girlfriend while they key down. :shock:
But then I would just be a mudduck with a nice car and their girlfriend...... :twisted: (J/K)



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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:15 PM

well, 25k...humm lets see..you will be going AC i would hope, lol...
this is just an estimate so dont hold me to it...prices can vary from area that you buy

you would do good to run a single 3cx10,000a7 on two power supplies
$300 200 amp AC alternators
$700 2 transformers (power supplies)
$150 1 DC alternator
$400 2x8 pill used or built yourself
$100 2 extra batteries
$150 used radio
$3200 10,000 box
$1000 mics wire, coax, ends, brackets, ect
$100 antenna
$1500 used suburban

$8200 total

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Post by J-570 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:26 PM

ww228kidd wrote:well, 25k...humm lets see..you will be going AC i would hope, lol...
this is just an estimate so dont hold me to it...prices can vary from area that you buy

you would do good to run a single 3cx10,000a7 on two power supplies
$300 200 amp AC alternators
$700 2 transformers (power supplies)
$150 1 DC alternator
$400 2x8 pill used or built yourself
$100 2 extra batteries
$150 used radio
$3200 10,000 box
$1000 mics wire, coax, ends, brackets, ect
$100 antenna
$1500 used suburban

$8200 total
Dang... I need to move down by you... you can pretty double to tripple those prices for everything around here and withing 500 miles.

And why not go with a 1x4 into a 16 pill into a 2 3cx20,000a7 box? :twisted: The 20,000 tubes are like 5500 a piece right there, just for the tubes.

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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:28 PM

he said 25k watts....we do have a bigger truck...but he asked for price on 25k mobile...dont buy new...buy used and build as much as you can yourself..that means..be your own tech..

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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:30 PM

just noticed...20,000s from greenstone is $1800 each

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Post by J-570 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:31 PM

ww228kidd wrote:he said 25k watts....we do have a bigger truck...but he asked for price on 25k mobile...dont buy new...buy used and build as much as you can yourself..that means..be your own tech..
Meh my bad I missed the 25k part at the end of his post. :oops: I don't like working on stuff, I don't mind installing but I keep my hands out of radio's and amps for the most part. So for me, I start with a good product...even if it is used I am not afraid to pay what it's worth.

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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:32 PM

never run a 16 pill into that box..llol..drive it with a 6000

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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:36 PM

J-570 wrote:
ww228kidd wrote:he said 25k watts....we do have a bigger truck...but he asked for price on 25k mobile...dont buy new...buy used and build as much as you can yourself..that means..be your own tech..
Meh my bad I missed the 25k part at the end of his post. :oops: I don't like working on stuff, I don't mind installing but I keep my hands out of radio's and amps for the most part. So for me, I start with a good product...even if it is used I am not afraid to pay what it's worth.
yep ...build as much as you can...i don't let nobody touch my truck...most of the big noys are thier own techs...we never just go buy amplifiers...we build what we use...you only buy parts...most of the fun is building, and it is great when you win with what you have built...

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Post by J-570 » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:37 PM

ww228kidd wrote:never run a 16 pill into that box..llol..drive it with a 6000
Stop making it easy.... :cry:

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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 21:42 PM

J-570 wrote:
ww228kidd wrote:never run a 16 pill into that box..llol..drive it with a 6000
Stop making it easy.... :cry:
different combinations you can use....two 3000s or one 6000 or ....lol...

its cool man...lol

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Post by Rex_foxhound » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 22:01 PM

I've got a question that I've never seen the answer to. It may have been mentioned somewhere else and I missed it...
At a keydown comp, do yall run on a certain channel all the time or switch out or how exactly does that work?
I've always wondered but never asked.
It's a 10K World!!!!



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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 22:04 PM

well, they choose from 2 to 5...most of the time they key on 4, but skip, or other things may get noisy so they change it

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Post by Rex_foxhound » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 22:20 PM

Thanks for the reply kidd.
Hopefully I'll be able to make it to the Jacksonville break this next time and that will answer a lot of my questions too.
It's a 10K World!!!!



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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 22:24 PM

i notice you are from GA...well, this year coming up an the same day that Jacksonville is have thier break...GA is having one in LaGrange

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Post by Rex_foxhound » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 22:32 PM

LaGrange is a heck of a lot closer than Jacksonville, NC....decisions, decisions lol
It's a 10K World!!!!



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Post by ww228kidd » Saturday, 24 November 2007, 22:41 PM

3rd week in march...i am going to my home state.... i got a flyer at the shop...

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Post by Crusher » Sunday, 25 November 2007, 7:17 AM

HMMMM 25Kw in DC, that would be a minimum of a 64 pill (Seen foxie do this with a 64, but that was just a second, literally causes it's just a matter of when it's gonna blow) But if you even want a chance to keep it up there you need at least a 96 pill (Have seen one of these boxes, actually (3) 32 pills combined with external combiners.) DK 40KW and talk at 38Kw. This is bird not peak watts. if you are gonna play, you better get yourself a Bird meter, well actually 2 and a dual line section. Then You gonna be laying down more money for alts that you will for 5 of those $1800 tubes that 228 was talking about. lol Cause your looking at a good 1800 amps for 96 pill and that doesn't include 24 or 32 pill driver and the drivers for those amps. Your looking at $300-$400 for each 300A alt plus you gonna need to invest in some tensioners and one heck of a bracket maybe 2. The the regulator circuitry will be a bit while you string 12 alt's together and get them to work together. Plus you will be carrying around half of the battery store in the back of the vehicle. LOL. Hey 228, this sound close what they can expect in DC ?

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Post by ww228kidd » Sunday, 25 November 2007, 7:30 AM

lol....thats why i said AC for 25k watts......in my book, anything after 16 or 24 pills, just go AC, alot cheaper and less batteries...unless you are only gonna use it for comp...and even then, the tech has built it hiself or his sidekick has so you only have parts cost....sugardaddy from the carolinas ran a 196 pill one year in Jacksonville...and i thing BB did for a few years...

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Crusher
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Post by Crusher » Sunday, 25 November 2007, 8:55 AM

I think that would be 192 pill (3) x 64. Yup that would put a *Censored* out there. LOL though I laugh when guys say man i ain't no mudduck, I'm running a 16 pill. And then you look under the hood and all they got is 1 alt and 4-6 batteries in the back, Saying I'm DKing 3KW and talking 1600 on the BIRD. LOL. you know what I am talking about 228. LOL I'm sure you see it all too often. Oh and when he's swinging that Bird backwards 1400Bird watts. He says that is all audio? WTF. LOL He ain't got enough fire in the wire and his system is duckin'. Or he wants to do some backwoods engineering and just clamp battery cables/connections instead of crimping and soldering EVERY connection (That's voltage loss due to resistance).

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Post by crazytruker » Monday, 26 November 2007, 17:03 PM

I don't need ya to send me an amp kidd but I am about way tired of a couple of these locals talking crap. I need to get my antenna squared away mounting wise to get the swr's down. I really hate to start drilling and bonding my 1 year old truck and it's got a 120 amp alternator. I would be willing to upgrade the alt. and charging system wires. I wouldn't mind bonding but never did it and would prefer to have help from someone who has. I would want good sealed connections where the braid attaches as to eliminate the mag chloride and water from getting to the body metal and rusting. I am just tired of these ducks out here and this one black guy out here runs around saying he has a 2 pill mobile but he won't shut up. I have a 2 pill Texas Star but I wanna blast him of the air waves. He could be lying but I am thinking at least a 1x4 or 2x4. I'm not sure how big I can go without bonding even though I know bonding helps no matter how small of power you run.

These never ending relentless idiots out here need some medicine and I want to give it to them. Forced fed crazy meds.

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Post by TwentyTwo-Zero » Monday, 26 November 2007, 17:42 PM

Crusher wrote:...just clamp battery cables/connections instead of crimping and soldering EVERY connection (That's voltage loss due to resistance).
Hmmm...and when I suggested this to someone in another thread I was told (by several) that it was "overkill" and a waste of time. I'm glad to see that somebody understands the importance of solid/tight/clean connections... :wink:


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